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I would be interested in hearing from people about things they have
found that have reduced the burning in their eyes. Thank you. Debbi
S.

Let's all take a deep breath here. (grin) Jacy is a regular list member and
one of 4 moderators. I'm one as well. We keep the spammers out. But we don't
punish list members for posting an opinion, ... well, as long as they don't go
overboard. (grin) So let's not call each other names or throw insult, let's
just discuss rosacea. Okay?
Pam in DC, posting as a moderator
:-)

Kathy,
Hey, we are with you. If you take Magnesium 133 mg three tablets
with your meals in addition to the other vitamins mentioned in
note number 5 at the end of the book, that should help the constipation,
along with drinking a minimum of eight glasses of water a day, ten
glasses of water if you can. Quitting smoking and sugar at the same
time is like coming off heroin. But your health and your face is
worth all this suffering you are experiencing. You will feel better
at the end of this tunnel and you certainly are seeing some of the
light already since your face is clearing!
Brady

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone can tell me what they use on their face to relieve
itching. My face constantly itches. I don't know if it is because my face is
dry (any type of lotion makes my face too oily) or if it is a sympton of the
rosacea. Any info would help. Thanks, Betty

Hi, this is my third day on the diet, I woke up weak this morning, I
find that I am not very hungry these days. That is a different
feeling. My face is already better, all the rash finally cleared up, I
have been outside some in the air with not alot of problems, I get a
little red and pink at times but not much stinging at all. It is a
very hard diet, but I am counting on it working for me. I have given
up alot of things in my life because of this rosace and I am hoping to
take my life back now. did anyone have problems with constipation? I
am wondering how that is going to go with all the cheese being eaten.
If so what do you take? Meat is good but I am already tired of it. I
quit smoking, one of the hardest things I have ever done. I think this
diet is going to be one of the hardest things I have ever done also.
The hardest part will be during the pre-menstrual when the craving is
really bad. I am seeing a gynecologist for that reason Tuesday, I will
let everyone know the results of that visit for all of you who have
the hormonal problems also. Good Luck to everyone on the diet, hang in
and please post any tricks that you know that will help me to stay on
this diet faithfully! Kathy

A good friend just had this done. She goes once every few weeks for a treatment
and I have to tell you, her skin looks great. It was a visible difference after
1 treatment too. Too bad insurances won't cover it though. She said it was
rather painful at first, almost like getting a tattoo, but being on your face
where it's sensetive. But once she got used to it, it wasn't so bad, because it
is quick, only takes about 20 minutes for her whole face.
Christina
Christina

Apparently Andrzej's Immune System Formula has
very few carbohydrates as you can see below.....
Begin forwarded message:

You may be interested in what Andrzej has to
say about his formula.....
Begin forwarded message:

Group,
I asked Andrzej to explain the carbohydrate content
of his Immune System Formula and this was his
response:
Begin forwarded message:

See note number 5 at the end of the book.
Brady

Huh? Dave sent me some private mail about some DMSO cure all. I
figured it was spam, and ignored it. Unless I see some evidence that
his DMSO thing works, it is just hype IMO. But more power to you if
it works, just figure out a way to get a study done or something
before you push it. Until then, it is just hype I presume.
PS, if I recall, DMSO was touted as a cure for many other maladies a
while back, and hasnt seemed effective in any of them. But I am not
a DMSO scholar. So use caution where this guy is concerned.

Hi all. I am new to this forum. I am a 36 yr old male with Rosacea,
and I have been in search of answers for about 7 years now. Anyway,
let me tell you my condition, and what I did to fix it. Hopefully it
will help others.
I have very light skin, and was always blushing when I was young. I
burn and dont tan. At least anymore. In the younger days I did get a
nice tan. I developed rosacea in my late 20's and it got so bad at
one point that I stopped going out at all. I had the red face, the
scaly skin, the pimples, etc. I tried alot of things, and read alot
of forums. So here is what worked for me. Note, you wouldnt think I
had rosacea if you saw me now.
First, shave every day if it is hot out. Second, I use Neutrogena
sensitive skin lotion to wash my face every morning in the shower.
Third, I use Johnsons baby shampoo for my hair. Fourth, do a
photoderm. It took about 6 sessions, but had amazing results. Fifth,
when I do get the breakout every 3rd month or so, I apply topical
Benzamycin for 2 to 3 days (just apply before bed). Sixth, dont
touch your face much, and dont pick anything. Seventh if you are in
the sun, wear a good sunscreen. Eight, dont drink red wine.
That is it. That is what worked for me, and I am looking good. I
will say that you need to do the photoderm every half decade or so,
since I am doing it again now for a touch up. Once I get an "are you
sunburned?" comment when I havent been in the sun, that is my clue
that I need to do it again lol.
And it seems like a small thing, but I eat really well mainly. I
avoid fats and try to eat alot of veggies and stay in shape. That is
probably important also.
I know this isnt a magic bullet, but it worked for me. I am dating a
tv news anchor now, and she had no clue I had rosacea until I told
her (and that was before this recent photoderm). And if anyone would
detect it, it would be a news person!
Good luck all.

Brady,
When I start thinking about something I have difficulty to stop. Some of
your clients (Debbie mentioned it in the past) may want other treatments
(laser etc.). The formula will help healing. See below.
Andrzej

On Thursday, March 20, 2003, at 09:21 PM, Andrzej Wedrychowski wrote:
Brady,
There is something else I may tell you. Herxheimer Effect or Healing
Crisis, if it comes, will make the condition worse for a while (see
below). The formula is unique. If "you " decide to use it stay on it.
Otherwise, you are wasting my time and your money. As far as I know, the
formula is the most expensive product sold as "health related item" on
the Internet or in the retail market.
Selling the formula is not difficult. Word of mouth and the results are
the keys to success of it.
Best wishes to you and yours.
Andrzej
"Herxheimer Effect
(http://www.nutriteam.com/herx.htm) or healing crisis occurs because
weak body is healing too fast and the system is not able to handle this
process smoothly for a while. Healing is a physical process which
requires energy because the body is changing.
There are many other Web Sites on Herxheimer Effect, for instance:
"...Herxheimer Effect manifests itself generally with flu-like
symptoms. These can include headaches, soreness/swelling in joints,
swollen glands, bloating, constipation, and numerous other discomforts.
However, many who have experienced long term chronic illnesses look
forward to these side effects, as an indicator that what they are
doing/taking is working, and try to maintain a tolerable level of
discomfort until they effect submission/remission of their condition."

The information below comes from this Web site:
http://www.natural-healing-centers.com/healing.htm
A healing crisis is in effect when the body is in the process of
elimination. Reactions may be mild or they may be severe. One should
expect this and work toward it.
The body's inherent desire is for perfect health. We have the ability to
earn our way back to that state.
The body must go through an elimination process to achieve good health.
There will be ups and downs. One does not go immediately into good
health. This elimination process we call the "healing crisis."
A healing crisis is the result of every body-system in concert to
eliminate waste products and set the stage for regeneration. Old tissues
are replaced with new. A disease crisis, on the other hand, is not a
natural one and works against the body's natural processes.
Symptoms may be identical to the disease, but there is an important
difference -- elimination. A cleansing, purifying process is underway
and stored wastes are in a free-flowing state. Sometimes discomfort
during the healing crisis is of greater intensity than when building the
chronic disease. This may explain why there may be a brief flare-up in
one's condition.
The crisis will usually bring about past conditions in whatever order
the body is capable of handling at that time.
People often forget the diseases or injuries they have had in the past,
but are usually reminded during the crisis.
Reactions could include skin eruptions, nausea, headache, sleepiness,
unusual fatigue, diarrhea, head or chest cold, ear infections, boils, or
any other way the body uses to loosen and eliminate toxins. The crisis
usually lasts three days -- but if the energy of the patient is low, it
may last for a week or more.
The body needs juices, and especially water, to help carry off the
toxins. This is a time for rest -- mental, as well as physical rest.
One crisis is not always enough for a complete cure. The person in a
chronic state, who has gone through many disease processes in life, must
go through these processes again.
Often the crisis will come after one feels their very best, setting the
stage for the elimination. The whole body must get into action. Most
people feel an energy boost the first few days. The toxins are dumped
into the blood stream for elimination -- go as slowly as your body needs
to so your elimination is gradual and comfortable.
With a more serious condition there may be many small crises to go
through before the final one is possible. Everything must be considered
and given its proper place in the build-up to a healing crisis. One
should expect it and work toward it

What kind of vitamins do you take with this diet? Kathy

Brady--
My daughter bought me some Neutrogena Sunscreen for Senstive Skin, and I was
surprised that I didn't react to it. Haven't tried the others you have
listed.

Believe us when we all say we understand your frustration. Re: the
stress is horrible for your health and definitely makes your
condition worse - if at all possible, try yoga, meditation or ven
see a counselor re: reducing the stress levels. Stress is energy
zapper- I have personally experienced this- our bodies will shut
down to reduce the anxiety - its too much competitiion with all yoru
other senses to just live - something has to give - so your energy
takes a nose dive.
Also, if you decided to try the diet, cut back or eliminate the
meds, I've to anyone who really cleaned up their systems and dietary
habits who used them to the extent they use to -- they no longer
need them. Continuing to try med after med should give you a clue
that its a guessing game and you have to ask youself if it is worth
it. Changing your diet, a healthy alternative is much kinder to you
body. At a minimum, try to cut back on starches and sweets and gage
what a happens to your skin. I'm willing to bet even with a little
change you can see some improvement.
Be careful of what you wish for, I use to want to be "normal again"
when this disease took over my skin--but know that I know SO MUCH
more about diet and nutrition and what's in our food, and what makes
me healthy- I am so much more informed that the "normal" person out
there and healthier, with clearer skin - I don't ever want to go
back to being normal ;)
the group for a while now and have only responded on a very few
occassions. My story is:
on my face. It first started off on the left side of my face and
increasingly got worse. Now it has made it to the other side of my
face and continues to spread. I've been to doctor after doctor to
no avail. They say it's Rosacea but I'm not sure they are sure as
everything given to me hasn't worked. I've had the ANA test to
which it came back almost Lupus but not Lupus - if that makes
sense. I have to take the test every year now to see
the sun it seems like (metrogel, metrocream, tetracycline, etc.).
Now the dr. has put me on the vitamin Nicomide that I take twice a
day. I wash my face with MD Forte and the base I use is a pressed
power from Jane Iredale. Iredale covers up the redness to a degree
but you can still see it and I still get comments from others about
the redness. I just want to be normal again like I used to be and
like everyone else around me. I also have no energy
can be awake for just a little bit and I'm exhausted and ready for
bed again. I'm to the point where it is affecting everything I do.
I don't want to go out of my house or do anything cause I'm afraid
everyone is looking at me and wondering what the heck is wrong with
my face. It is affecting absolutely everything I do.
would like any other information you all can give me. If anyone
else has tried the formula, I would like to know their results. I'm
willing to try just about anything - of course that I can afford.
Pellets (100mgs). She said if this doesn't work she will put me on
a high powered Vitamin A that will cause the dr to have to test me
often to make sure it's not damaging my organs. I'm so confused and
don't know what to do. Every time I turn around, the stuff I'm
taking is bad for me but the redness on my face is bad for me too
emotionally.

i developed spider veins on my right cheek after using
a steroid cream on my face (prescribed by a blind
dermatologist). the rosacea became inflamed and
swollen and by the time i found out what was causing
it the damage was done. vanity took over and i had
lazer treatments to get rid of the spider veins. it
worked.
cassie

My experience with his formula was that for about 2
months all my symptoms cleared. I could eat anything
and had no redness or itching - nothing. Just smooth
pale skin. It was great. Then I got a really bad flu
with a high fever and as I was recovering the rosacea
came back. I continued to take the formula for several
months more, but I never saw any improvement at all. I
did notice many other benefits, but no improvement
with my skin. It is very expensive also. I needed to
put my money where I could get benefits with my skin.
Deb

I thought I would make a poll on sunscreen that rosaceans
use to see what is the most popular. Before making up
this list I have found these ones
Ombrelle product line by Loreal
ECRAN TOTAL PHYTO AROMATIQUE
BareZone
Vanicream
Ant Ti-silc (Elena, is this spelled correctly?)
Sisiley
Bull Frog
There are probably others so that is why I am asking
the group for their suggestions. Please post to the group
and after a few days I will make the poll of sunscreens
and everyone can then vote on which one is the most
popular.
Brady

You can. Go to this url
http://rosacea.org/grants/awards.html
The NRS spends money on public awareness which includes their
newsletter and internet. For example, the NRS spent $108,347 for
"Awareness Publicity' and $43,642 on 'Online Services.' To actually
give the $76,332 for rosacea RESEARCH the NRS spent $18,498 for
a "Grant Program.' It costs money to give the mony away! A very
interesting expense is "Broadcast Production" for $65,606. Wonder
what was broadcast? Another good one is 'Clipping Services' for
$1,800. I think Sam knows how to clip.
Just wanted to let you know where Sam is spending all his dontated
dollars for rosacea.
Brady

Group,
Andrzej just sent me this email which may be of interest to you.
Brady
Begin forwarded message:

I am curious how many are here that have the spider veins on the face also have
trouble with them on their legs. I do, and I have since grade school. I wonder
now if there is a connection?
Hugs,
Jacy

Would be good if we could see some of the results from the research.

The National Rosacea Society Form 990 Report for 2002 to the IRS
reveals that the total contributions from direct public support and
interest from savings was $825,207. The total expenses came to
$735,045. Out of the total expenses for the year the NRS spent $76,332
on RESEARCH grants. The rest of the expenses went to many things but
one expense sticks out on the report. It is to Glendale Communications
Group, Inc., owned by Samuel B. Huff. The amount of this expense was
$442,505. Sam is also the President of the NRS. For more info
http://www.rosaceans.com/html/tip.html#NRS

I read this article in the sunday magazine, on the web it can be
seen at
http://www.usaweekend.com/03_issues/030803/030803eatsmart.html
Surprising skin savers
What you eat can protect you from wrinkles, sags and sunburn.
Fancy lotions, creams and sunscreens can help keep your skin
beautiful, smooth and free of cancer. But essentially good skin is
an inside job, new research says. Eating the right antioxidants,
vitamins and fats -- the same stuff that keeps your heart healthy --
also can help prevent wrinkles, sun damage and skin cancer. Clearly,
what you eat does affect your skin.
Would you believe ... ?
Tomatoes as sunblock. In German research, people who ate 1 1/2
ounces of tomato paste daily for 10 weeks had 40% less artificially
induced sunburn than those not eating tomato paste. Researchers
credit tomato paste's 16 milligrams of the antioxidant lycopene with
fortifying the skin against sun damage.
Marmalade as cancer antidote. University of Arizona researchers were
startled to find that eating orange and grapefruit peels (but not
the juice or pulp) once a week or more, as 37% of the subjects did,
cut the risk of squamous cell skin cancer by one-third. Possible
reason: high concentrations of antioxidant d-limonene in the oil of
the peel that migrates into the eater's skin.
Prunes to fight wrinkles. An amazing study of a large group of
elderly Greeks, Swedes and Australians found that those who ate the
most prunes, apples, vegetables, olive oil, fish and legumes had
fewer wrinkles and less sun-damaged skin than those who ate lots of
meat, butter, margarine and milk products. Prunes, also called dried
plums, have a higher concentration of protective antioxidants than
any other fruit.
Salmon as a face-lift. In "The Perricone Prescription", Nicholas
Perricone, M.D., advises eating 8 to 12 ounces of fish a day,
primarily salmon, as part of "a nutritional face-lift." He says
salmon's omega-3 oil combats wrinkle-promoting inflammation
and "plumps up the skin." Fish oil does look promising for the skin.
In new British research, taking 4,000mg omega-3s a day for three
months reduced sunburn damage by 30%. The dose was equivalent to
eating about 12 ounces of salmon a day.
Tea against skin cancer. Many studies show that tea-drinking mice
have fewer skin cancers. Even rubbing tea extract on their skin
keeps cancers away. Green and black tea appear equally effective,
and caffeine may help, too. In one study decaf tea was less
effective than caffeinated tea in mice.
Antioxidants save skin. Several studies suggest that antioxidant
supplements help protect skin from sun damage. German researchers
found that doses of 1,000 IU vitamin E and 2,000mg vitamin C daily
for eight days boosted resistance to sunburn by 20%. Other research
found a mixture of beta carotene, lycopene and lutein taken for
three months also reduced mild sunburn.
Alcohol promotes skin cancer. Men and women who consumed three or
more alcoholic beverages a day were 30% more likely to have basal
cell carcinoma -- the most common skin cancer -- than non-drinkers,
according to recent Harvard research. Exceptions: Beer drinkers
didn't have a higher risk; women who drank red wine had a slightly
lower risk. The main causes of wrinkled, damaged, cancer-prone skin
are aging, sun exposure, smoking and excessive alcohol.

Hi All.
I hope everyone is emjoying their summer.
Im certainly enjoying mine.
The forum has been real quite lately cause I guess
everyone is outdoors,me included.
Just thought I would pop in and say hello and let
everyone know I am still here.
I check the messages every couple of days.
OK,,,,,See you all soon and dont forget to wear your SUNSCREEN!
Enjoy your summer!
Bye for now
Marilyn

Hi Brady.
Could you please change my name on my moderator profile
to Marilyn from Jamara.
Jamara is just my e-mail addy.
Hope your enjoying your summer!
Thanks!
Marilyn

Michelle,
Your rosacea is serious and we all are with you. You will
have to contact Andrzej about his immune system formula.
Have you tried the Rosacea Diet yet?
Brady

Hi All!
I'm writing this in frustration. I've been receiving emails from the group
for a while now and have only responded on a very few occassions. My story
is:
For at least 3 years now (that I can remember), I have had redness on my
face. It first started off on the left side of my face and increasingly got
worse. Now it has made it to the other side of my face and continues to
spread. I've been to doctor after doctor to no avail. They say it's
Rosacea but I'm not sure they are sure as everything given to me hasn't
worked. I've had the ANA test to which it came back almost Lupus but not
Lupus - if that makes sense. I have to take the test every year now to see
if the levels escalate into Lupus. I've taken all the drugs under the sun
it seems like (metrogel, metrocream, tetracycline, etc.). Now the dr. has
put me on the vitamin Nicomide that I take twice a day. I wash my face with
MD Forte and the base I use is a pressed power from Jane Iredale. Iredale
covers up the redness to a degree but you can still see it and I still get
comments from others about the redness. I just want to be normal again like
I used to be and like everyone else around me. I also have no energy
what-so-ever. I can go to bed around 8 PM and wake up at 5 AM. I can be
awake for just a little bit and I'm exhausted and ready for bed again.
I'm to the point where it is affecting everything I do. I don't want to go
out of my house or do anything cause I'm afraid everyone is looking at me
and wondering what the heck is wrong with my face. It is affecting
absolutely everything I do.
I would be willing to try Andrzej Wedrychowski's Formula and would like any
other information you all can give me. If anyone else has tried the
formula, I would like to know their results. I'm willing to try just about
anything - of course that I can afford.
I had a derm. appointment last week, and she put me on Doryx Pellets
(100mgs). She said if this doesn't work she will put me on a high powered
Vitamin A that will cause the dr to have to test me often to make sure it's
not damaging my organs. I'm so confused and don't know what to do. Every
time I turn around, the stuff I'm taking is bad for me but the redness on my
face is bad for me too emotionally.
Thank you in advance for listening and helping! Sorry so long!
Michelle

I hope it helps if I cross-post the following info here at rosaceans. I
collected this info for the rosacea-cure members, because I believe mineral
makeup is great stuff for all rosaceans, even though I have never used it.
I would appreciate any feedback, positive or negative, anyone might have on this
subject.
God Bless,
Dave Fleming
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx
Although I have never used it, I have become convinced that "mineral makeup" is
the most ideal means of covering the temporary redness caused by this
treatment/cure for rosacea. For full info, see:

Hi Angela,
The only products I've used are the Renew Moisturizer and the
foundation in the pump bottle. The foundation didn't seem to cover
very well. I started using the Renew for severe eczema on the right
hand. If you had looked at my hands nine months ago you would have
never thought both hands were mine. One looked as normal as a 40-
something woman's can look and the other looked awful. The skin was
cracked, thick and bleeding most of the time. Now they look the
same - I couldn't beleive the improvement with this lotion.
I have some seborrheic on my face and decided to try it for that
too. And it really helps. It doesn't make my face any redder and
really helps with the itching.
I'm not a member of melaleuca. The lady who helps me clean my house
gave me a bottle of the Renew one day when she can over and I had tp
put eleven band-aids on my hand to cover the areas that were
bleeding before we started to clean. Now I just ask her to bring me
a supply each month. I'll ask her about the cleanser and toner next
time she comes over.
Ann

Andrzej Wedrychowski, Ph.D., has been corresponding with me since 1999
when I posted an email from Adam about Andrzej's juice type formula that
helped her mother's rosacea. The original email can be seen at this
url
http://rosaceadiet.com/html/1999.html#Feb
Over the years I have posted a plethora of emails from Andrzej about his
immune system formula and Debbi Freeburg-Renwick, one of the moderator
for this group, tried it. She is the only one that has ever posted a
comment on this formula that I know of. Her comment is
found at this url
http://rosaceadiet.com/html/1999.html#dec
Debbie, what are your current thoughts about Andrzej's formula?
Anyway, Andrzej just posted some updated info on his formula and I
thought you should know. My thoughts on his formula is that during the
thirty day Rosacea Diet plan, no juice since it will elevate blood
glucose levels. After the thirty days you can drink his juice type
formula just as you would try any food or drink you want. Maybe it will
help? Who knows? Andrzej has provided some user comments on his
formula which I have posted for you to read. You will have to contact
Andrzej about all this if you have any questions. But anyway, this
where you will find
the info
Recent Rosacea News
Andrzej Wedrychowski, Ph.D. Immune System Formula Update
http://www.rosacea-control.com/html/tip.html
first article
Brady
group owner

I had the same experience - I am 33 now and my skin started to break out
into little bumps about 9 years ago - I of course just thought it was
acne and must have used countless harsh skin products. I only started
flushing last year in the summertime. Several colleagues at work said I
looked really flushed after coming in to the office from outside - it
was a very hot summer here in Connecticut last year.
I also remember having found out a number of years ago that if I avoided
sugar and carbohydrates, my skin would clear. I mentioned this several
times to different dermatologists, but they just thought I was neurotic
and emphasized that there was no link between the skin and one's diet.
When I was diagnosed to have rosacea last year by a derm - I was so
surprised and immediately started to search the internet for any
information on the disease. I couldn't believe it when I finally found
a diet that confirmed all my suspicions.
I also think there is a strong connection between the worsening of this
condition and stress. I was going through a fairly stressful period of
my life last year and that is when my skin started going crazy. I
noticed that it got a lot worse after going out in the sun - so sadly no
more tanning for me! (at least I can avoid skin cancer).
My dermatologist has rosacea and her skin is totally clear and not
flushed at all. She has started me on a period of peels - so far my
skin seems to have cleared really well. She said that you have to be
really careful and do the peel for a very short period of time and watch
the skin carefully - I naturally was very hesitant to do them. She also
recommended I have laser treatment - she said that the peels and the
laser treatment totally cleared her skin. She also likes noretate and
if the skin goes through a bad patch - to use tetracycline from time to
time. I have told her about the diet and she doesn't have much of a
response. My next session is in 3 weeks - so I am going to be very
strict on the diet and prove to her the difference. My experience has
been that I don't need any other products when I do the diet - it works
so well. I just use the Zia cleansing gel and a little jojoba oil for
moisture.
Sorry this was so long - but wanted to address a lot of issues.
Suz

This is a very good point and makes me realize that I
too did not have flushing until maybe 7 years after
the first symptoms began appearing. Deb

Ann,
Renew is a great moisturizer and my hubby and I use it all the time but I've
never tried it on my face. Melaleuca has a makeup line called Nicole Miller and
I use the Daytime Delivery Moisturizing Creme-SPF 16 and at night I use Night
Release Moisturizing Creme. Both are for normal to dry skin and my skin was
incredibly dry when I started using it in January. Now I'm almost oily again so
maybe I should try their lighter moisturizer. The cleanser I use is Renew
Creamy Cleanser and Freshen Balancing Toner. I usually like foaming cleansers
but the creamy one works best for my rosacea. Are you a Melaleuca member or
just get your product from someone else? We joined in January and love all the
products because they are not toxic. I was reacting to my house cleaners and
now I can clean and breath at the same time...lol.
Angela from Ontario, Canada
lazuli2day <lazuli2day@...
Angela,
I use a malaleuca moisturizer called renew. It's great and works
really well for eczema too. I've never tried any of their other
products. I think they have more than one toner and cleanser - what
is the name of the ones you're using.
Thanks,
Ann

Tom--
I had rosacea for many years before I experienced my first flushing episode.
How did I know it was rosacea? The truth is I didn't at the time, but 20/20
hindsight and a lot of research tell me it clearly was (and is) rosacea
affecting me.
Consider the following timeline:
Late 1980's: I was in my late thirties, and everyone began telling me I
looked "sunburned" all the time. I thought I had simply put too many
highlights on my hair, and perhaps the extra blonde in my hair had turned my
skin "pink."
1993: My eyes began feeling gritty and hurting all the time. The
opthamologist told me I had "allergies." I accepted the diagnosis, but
discovered over time that these "allergies" never went away and became
increasingly severe through the years. Allergy medication did nothing to
relieve any of the discomfort. As the condition progressed, it became
clearer and clearer to me that it was a systemic condition brought on by
something internal--not something seasonal or external.
2000: Patches of pustules began appearing on my cheeks. I assumed at first
that this was a hormonal breakout and used acne medication to no avail. I
visited a dermatologist for completely different purposes; he looked at my
cheeks and said, "What is going on here?" I told him my theory about a
hormonal breakout, and he gave me more acne medication, which did nothing.
However, his question stayed with me and served as my first hint that this
was perhaps not a simple case of acne, so I went home and researched
"rosacea" on the net.
It hit home for the first time that a rosacea diagnosis might apply to me, so
I ordered Dr. Nase's book. Dr. Nase, through his writings, insisted that one
could not have true rosacea without flushing, but I had experienced a
significant number of other symptoms up to that point. I talked to multiple
doctors and nurses. All agreed the rosacea diagnosis applied.
December 2001: My first flush hit. Take the worst sunburn you've ever seen,
triple it, and then watch it fade in hideous patches. It was a nightmare to
watch. This first flush took half an hour to go away and did not come back
until spring.
April 2002: My second flush struck while I was in a doctor's office--every
bit as hideous as before. I immediately called the derm to begin IPL
treatments. I have not had a single flush since. Thank heavens I knew a bit
about rosacea at that point, or I would not have known what to do.
March 2003: For the first time ever, I'm experiencing the stinging
sensations on my skin to which many rosaceans refer. My skin feels extra
sensitive and I can't help but wonder if the disease has managed to progress
despite my efforts to the contrary.
My overall point is that there are several components to rosacea. Although
Dr. Nase contends that it is primarily a vascular disorder and one cannot
have true rosacea without flushing, in my case, flushing was one of the last
symptoms to rear its ugly head, and it did so more than 10 years after the
first symptom showed up.
So, Tom, if your doc is telling you that no flushing means no rosacea, don't
write it in stone yet. It may take some time for that symptom to come to the
surface.
Good luck to you,
Alice Haddow

Tom,
As Alice has confirmed, you still may have rosacea without
flushing. Your derm obviously hasn't ruled out rosacea
yet.
However, rosacea may also be misdiagnosed for
many other skin disorders - see this url (ninth and tenth
articles
http://www.rosacea-control.com/html/tip.html
From your description I still think you should give
the diet a longer try. Actually hard core is
not the term, just trying the diet as I recommend. When
you allow 100 to 150 grams of carbohydrates a day in your
system, your blood glucose is still activating your insulin
levels to stimulate whatever is going on. You need to
completely try this high protein diet which will help
heal your skin. This process may take a month for
you or even longer by this method. Eating Stonyfield
yogurt, which I love, along with fruit may not control
whatever is happening to you. Give the diet a try.
Once you have your 'rosacea' or whatever it is controlled,
you may return to your favorite foods and see your
problem return. This is the method. Eventually you
find out how to control it. Many in this group testify
it works. Each individual has his/her own control method
after experimenting over time by this process. And
we all benefit from one another's posts here. And
where on planet earth can you discuss with others how
to do this with diet, since most of the other rosacea groups
talk about everything else but diet?
Brady

Hi Lisa,
I've tried Pro Active but only use it occasionally. The cleanser has an
exfoliant in it that can irritate rosasea but the renewing lotion is great and I
use it once in a while when I break out with acne. A great moisturizer is from
www.melaleuca.com though I wouldn't recommend the foundation. I only use the
blush, eye shadow, mascara, moisturizer, cleanser and toner from Melaleuca. I
usually have oily skin in the summer but because of rosacea entering my life I
am still wearing the same moisturizer I wear in winter. I do get shiny at times
(on extremely hot days) but it's better than being dry and itchy. It's hard to
find a balance. Currently I'm using Clinique foundation but the coverage is not
the best. I'm looking into Jane Iredale foundation because it's what I'm
looking for and they have a Canadian distribution center.
Angela from Ontario, Canada
lisaannc <lisa_cannuli@...
I have tried several different brands of cleanser and moisturizer
form Clinique to Olay to Avon. Some have a minimal affect on my
rosacea. Others seem to make it worse. Has anyone tried Pro
Active? I know Murad makes products specifcally for rosacea
sufferers, but they are very expensive. Aside from the redness and
breakouts I have combination skin. Plus I'm over 40, we won't say
how over, and I see some fine lines creeping in that could use a
little moisture boost without making my face oily.
Thanks for your input.
Lisa

Brady,
Thanks for the reply. My derm first said it was Rosacea. Then, after the
normal treatments were ineffective (tetracycline, erythromycin, metrogel),
he suggested that it was a bacterial infection and wanted to do a biopsy on
my nose (which means stitches and a scar) and have me see an infectious
disease specialist. After further discusion, he did a culture and it came
back negative. Later, he again called it Rosacea.
I've had two MD's say that it looks more like acne and because I have no
flushing/blushing, so Rosacea doesn't fit. IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WITH
ROSACEA THAT DOESN'T BLUSH/FLUSH? Since there is no test for Rosacea, it's
based purely on symptoms.
One of the things that is hard for me is the uncertain diagnosis. When you
read Rosacea literature, there are triggers mentioned and diet seems to play
a part in even the conventional treatment. Whenever you read about acne,
the repeated statement is that acne is not caused or aggravated by diet.
I'm not sure I believe that, but who knows?
I've read your book carefully and I understand what you are saying about
triggers being "potential," not absolute. However, it's a lot easier to
identify a trigger if it causes you to flush in a few hours than it is if it
causes pimples four days later. Who knows what you've done in those four
days to cause problems? My derms says a trigger should produce a result in
24 hours.
I did go hard core on the diet for a week and that's when I broke out worse
and got the boil on my face. Like I said before, I can't be sure it was the
diet, I think it was a supplement I was taking that caused it. I can say
that I've been limiting carbs and have almost eliminated sugar/refined
flour/hydrogenated fats for three months now. I probably consume 100-150
grams of carbs per day. It seems to have helped with my nose (I've had only
three smaller breakouts in three months) but the rest of my face still has
been breaking out with acne-like symptoms.
Regarding the yogurt, it has been plain Stonyfield yogurt, from a health
food store with protein powder and berries (blueberries or strawberries) to
make a "smoothie." I also throw in some flax seed. Makes a great
breakfast, but I'm not willing to try it again for a while. It may have
just been coincidence that I ate it before my recent flare-ups.
Thanks for your reply, Brady. This is a great and very supportive group.
Tom

Hi Lisa,
I don't post here very often, but I thought I should on this one. I
have used all of the products you've mentioned here. Clinique, Olay,
and Avon all have made my condition worse, even as a teenager before
I was diagnosed. I always thought it was an allergy...
About two years ago I tried the Pro Active and it was amazing! It
was about three days before I could tell a difference and in a couple
of weeks, my skin was Completely clear. I stayed that way for about
four months and thought the problem was gone until I went through a
period of extreme stress... To make a long story short, the rosacea
symptoms returned. I was still using the Pro Active, but that time
nothing helped and the rosacea continued getting worse. The worst it
had ever been. At that point I went on all the prescription meds to
get things under control. My doctor told me that while I was on the
meds I shouldn't use the Pro Active (didn't explain why), so I
haven't used it since. Even though my symptoms returned I still
believe the Pro Active was a great product. I was under a lot of
stress and even prescription meds took a long time to make any
difference. Really the symptoms didn't clear up until the emotional
stress was back under control. If it weren't for that I think the
Pro Active would have continued to work.
Be careful with the tonor though. It does have alcohol in it and
that is a trigger for many people here. (Neutorgena has an alcohol-
free tonor)
As far as make-up products, I can not say enough about neutrogena. I
never buy anything else. They have a whole line of products that all
have SPF protection (make-up, face wash, moisturizer, etc.). And
they have the best concealer I've ever used. It covers the reddness
really well, lasts a long time, and isn't thick or greasy. There are
several different concealers...the one I like is in a tube that looks
like a lip stick.
Hope this helps!
Angela
Kansas City

Tom,
Does you derm diagnose you with acne? If so, the Rosacea Diet should
still help acne. I am confused as to why you haven't gotten a diagnosis
on your condition.
As to triggers, there are no rules, no absolutes. Triggers are only
suggestions or possibilities, not something written in stone. See my
chapter on Flushing and Triggers. A trigger for you may or may not
be a trigger for another rosacean and vice versa. There is no absolute
trigger that brings a flare up of rosacea in EVERY rosacean. Not one.
A triggger is only a potential factor for a rosacean. The list of
trigger
factors only MAY produce a rosacea trigger.
As to food triggers and the time it takes to produce a flare-up, there
are no absolute times on how long it takes. It can be hours. It can
be days. But the Rosacea Diet has proven to work wonders in controlling
rosacea for many, many rosaceans. This group testifies it has worked
for them.
As you predicted, I suggest you try it 'hard core' and go all the way
to the 30 gram limit for at least a week and notice if this improves
your nose and face.
As to cottage cheese, I suggest the 4% fat rather than the low fat. Note
how the 4% or higher fat cottage cheese has less carbohydrates. Besides
it tastes better.
As to yogurt, are you eating the whole milk plain yogurt with the fat,
sugar free and not fruit or are you eating low fat or no fat yogurt with
sugar and/or fruit?
Brady

Hey everyone,
Went to the Professor in Chinese Medicine yesterday and basically talked about
the condition for about 20 minutes then I got some accupuncture done which
lasted about 25 minutes, he put the needle things in the bottom of my legs and
some in the bottom of my arms. He also gave me some tablets which are called
'Eczema herbal formula - Pi Fu Bing, Xue Du Wan; used for relief of the symptoms
of ezcema and the oral treatment of acne and pimples' have to take 15 of these
tablets each day before meals. Ill let ya know how it all goes over the coming
weeks.
Nick

Thanks for the responses from many of you. If you have to wait for 3-4 days
for a trigger to kick in, how can you know what triggered it? Can you
imagine how many variables in your life have changed in those 3-4 days? It
seems like a guessing game.
The one thing that may be a trigger for me is yogurt. Every time I've had a
flare up (nose boils/pustules mostly) is after having yogurt a day or so
before. I haven't tried yogurt again recently ... I'll see if I stay clear
for a few weeks and then chance it again.
Also, the diet is very high on dairy products, from which I've been
abstaining for a little over two weeks now. It seems to be helping. I'm
going to give it two more weeks and then reintroduce some low fat cottage
cheese and see what happens. Dairy and yogurt are "official" rosacea
(potentil) triggers.
One reason I haven't gone "all the way" with the diet is that I'm still not
sure I have rosacea and the symptoms all of you describe are not matching
mine. That is probably my biggest frustration in this thing ... not knowing
if my diagnosis is accurate. Diagnosis determines treatment. For example,
everyone says that Rosaceans should stay away from benzoyl peroxide. I've
been using it at my derm's advice for several weeks now and it seems to be
helping - I have no negative effects except for some slight dryness by my
eyes which is easily resolved. He is now giving my a "standard" acne
treatment - benzoyl peroxide wash and a clindomycin cream twice daily. This
seems to be helping more than anything I've tried so far.
I am very strict about very little or no sugar, refined flour, soda,
hydrogenated fats, and have been on a lower carb diet for about 3 months.
This has helped, but not completely.
My symptoms are probably less severe that what many of you suffer, but when
I have a red nose, it really makes me want to stay out of public because
it's so embarassing for me. Right now my nose is as clear as it's been in
months, but some of the redness and veins are still there.
Does anyone have anything to say about vitamin K lotion to reduce redness,
blemishes, and veins?
Well, I'm rambling. Thanks for listening and any feedback would be
appreciated.
Tom

I have tried several different brands of cleanser and moisturizer
form Clinique to Olay to Avon. Some have a minimal affect on my
rosacea. Others seem to make it worse. Has anyone tried Pro
Active? I know Murad makes products specifcally for rosacea
sufferers, but they are very expensive. Aside from the redness and
breakouts I have combination skin. Plus I'm over 40, we won't say
how over, and I see some fine lines creeping in that could use a
little moisture boost without making my face oily.
Thanks for your input.
Lisa

Wow, a lot of info, Pam.
Thanks very much.
Bare Minerals is made by Bare Escentuals, and they say they've been in business
for 12 years, in the San Francisco area.
As you said, I found QVC at:
<http://www.qvc.com
QVC carries Bare Escentuals, but not the complete line at this time.
Since these "mineral makeups" have absolutely no "additives", I guess we can
assume that they are all equally good for rosaceans? Also, I'm curious, so I
have to ask, why you have not tried any, but it's none of my business....
This info will keep me busy for quite a while, so I guess you should not take
time to answer any more of this. Just curious.
For all the most important info on the treatment/cure for rosacea I am claiming,
refer to messages #2, #18, and #64, at:

wellskin base glaxal??ty

There are other mineral based makeups out there, Dave. Jane Iredale,
Aromaleigh, Bare Escentuals, Mineral Secrets, Monave, Illuminaire. The Jane
Iredale is
supposed to be for rosaceans. Many of the others are promoted as alternatives
to modern makeup, being more basic and many are not tested on animals nor are
animal products used, so it's a favorite of vegans and those who don't want
any kind of animal product on their face. I haven't tried any, but turned these
up on the Rosacea Support archives. A lot of people seem to use the Jane
Iredale--it had the most mentions.
http://www.mineralsecrets.com/
http://www.janeiredale.com/
http://www.aromaleigh.com/
http://www.illuminarecosmetics.com/
http://www.monave.com/
http://www.bareescentuals.com/
Pam in D.C.
P.S. QVC is a television shopping channel, headquartered outside Philadelphia
(that's where the outlet store is! hehe) and they have a web site.

I have used bare minerals exclusively for almost 2 years now. I am
amazed at how well it covers my roseacea and i still don't look like
I am wearing a mask. I have gotten it from QVC (the bane of my
husband's existance) and occasionally they have special packaging
where you can get a great deal. I love it- I am not without it
ever!!!
Kate

Marianne,
thanks for the post. your experience is what I have
always found out myself. when I go off my own diet
I have a rosacea flare. it is difficult when friends and
family offer those tempting delights. I am a sucker
for tortilla chips, particularly red hot blues. I pay
for it every time on my my face! I am the first to
recognize my own diet is extremely difficult, but
my face is worth the sacrifice and setting an example
is an obvious reason to stay on my own diet!

I agree with Deb. Dr. Nase's direction has helped tremendously in saving
time, money and much frustration. For example, the Zia cleanser has worked
wonders, as others have already mentioned. And, Tom, if you are in the
advanced stage of whatever it may be considered, you may consider laser
surgery. Ask your derm about it. Technology is a wonderous thing. And if
you confirm that you do indeed have rosacea then Dr. Nase's book is anything
but throwing money away. Countless others will attest to this. Keep us all
posted. Happy St. Patty's Weekend from Chicago!
-Kris

I would love to know what herbs he puts you on. Please share the info
thanks

In response to your direct question. I can't say I regret buying Dr.
Nase's book. I did get information about certain products that he
recommended and like them so far. I was a little dissapointed
because in the end, it basically says the only really effective
treament is photoderm treatments. I will admit, I have not read
completely, the in depth half of the book. One half is very detailed
the other is to the point. Dr. Nase did suffer a great deal with
flushing and blushing. He didn't have much if any of the type of
problems that you seem to be having.
I hope that helps.
Kelly

Has anyone used a makeup line called Bare Minerals? I saw a TV ad for it, and if
it is half as good as it looks, every rosacean should really shout for joy, to
discover it.
I am interested, because the treatment/cure for rosacea I am claiming, produces
some temporary redness, as part of the healing process, and I wish I had used
this makeup during my treatment/cure, to allow me more freedom to enter social
situations.
Is this makeup too good to be true, or what?
Please let me know. Our members at rosacea-cure would benefit from this
immensely, during their treatment/cure for rosacea.
The phone number from the TV ad was (800)705-4747.
Their website is at:
<http://www.bareminerals.com/
The phone number given at their website, is (800)451-2022
IF YOU HAVE USED THIS MAKEUP, PLEASE LET ME KNOW AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, WHAT YOU
THINK ABOUT IT.
As always, all the most important facts about my claim for this one-and-only
treatment/CURE for rosacea, are at:

To everyone at rosaceans,
Please forgive me for the preceeding duplicate message, folks. A glitch got
me....
God Bless,
Dave Fleming

Tom:
1. See if your local library has the book or maybe ask them to order
it. Personally, I don't have classic "rosacea" and found the book
useful in the beginning, but admittedly, I borrowed it from someone
else ;) Your symptoms sound more like someone with the rhynophema
(sp) form of rosacea, the kind that produces large pustules and
primarily affects the nose area. I'm sure your derm has already
told you this. I had classic severe acne symptoms along with slight
redness and extreme sensitivity - rosacea-but just surfacing
differently.
2. everybody's body is different with reactions. for some their
triggers result in immediate reaction, for others the next day. Its
trial and error and learning to tune into your body. The diet does
seem to help with the acne, especially by eliminating the sugar, but
seems like the acne does take some extra care.
I know its hard, but try not to compound variables when you're on
the diet, its too hard to figure out what's working or not working.
If you loading up on cheese or dairy, that could have triggered the
boil- hard to tell. Also, one week is still not enough time for
your body to calm down from all the carbs and sugar - might take a
while to see real results. Cutting out the cars/sugar had
definitely helped me with the acne portion, still break out
occassionally and have to use prescribed topical 3x week, but pre-
diet I had to use the topical 7 times a week and it was kind of
harsh.
Also, there is much discussion on the board regaring laser/light
treatment - you can do some searches and find out more about that
option, the diet still plays a big role, tho.
Hope this helps.
1. I'm considering purchasing Dr. Nase's book, but I don't want to
waste $$ on something that's not for me. Will his book address
someone with my symptoms, or is it more for someone with classic
flushing/blushing symptoms of Rosacea? I'm still not convinced that
I even have Roasace.
for 6 weeks, including carbs/protein/fat). It sounds like some of
you can easily identify a trigger because you react within hours of
eating something. I have never seen such a thing. If I eat
a "trigger" food, how long should it be before I have a reaction?
With pimples/pustules, is this meaningful or are triggers more
related to blushing/flushing?
the 30 gram carbs/day diet. I was doing that for about a week when
the boil sprung up on my face and it spooked me, but I doubt that
the diet was to blame. I think it was the homeopathic medicine. Has
anyone found the diet to help for regular old acne?

Hi Everyone,
I recently recieved some information from a owner of a health food store, it
said some information about Vitamin B2 and rosacea and proclaimed that 80% of
all rosacea sufferer's (in Australia only possibly not sure) who take vitamin B2
are promptly cured. I was just curious if anyone else has tried it here. I
have currently tried it for 2 weeks and it seems to dulling down the redness a
bit but bringing out more pastules and flushing alot more than I had before I
wasnt taking them. I think I'll go off them now and actually get a blood test
too see if I am deficient in vitamin B2 or not, I cant be bothered with things
that make it worse that it was in its original state. The same thing also has
happened to me with Acidopholus / pro biotic supplements (excuse the spelling)
after I was down to about the last 1/3 of the jar of capsules the rosacea seemed
to be spreading to places ive never seen it before, soon as I stopped taking
them it returned to only its original origin.
On another note next week Im going too see a professor in chinese medicine who
has said on the phone he has had alot of success with rosacea, through
accupuncture and herbs. So next week I will be getting some accupuncture and
whatever else he deems to be effective. I will let everyone know how it goes.
Nick

any info bad or good would be appreciated thankssssss

Dear Angela,
There is good reason to believe, that acne and rosacea are completely separate
in their cause and progress. I say this, because I know/believe that the means
of destroying the "rosacea causing entity" has been discovered, and it is very
likely, that rosacea is caused by a very slow growing fungal entity, which
resides deep in the nasal and sinus areas.
This would explain why the facial symptoms of rosacea precede the ocular
rosacea, since it must "spread" up toward the eyes, from the nasal/sinus areas.
I believe this fungal entity must "grow, or take root" for a long time, perhaps
for years, before symptoms of rosacea are detected, which would also explain why
the ocular rosacea symptoms sometimes come much later, after the symptoms of the
rosacea.
In any case, I know/believe that the first effective means of attacking and
destroying this "rosacea causing entity", (whatever it is), has been discovered.
All the most important facts, are at:

I have found the greatest success with skin products has come from the
recommendations in Dr Nasés book. I use the Zia Cleansing gel and my
skin loves it in other words, I have no reaction. I always rinse my
face with cold water to calm it down although not too cold. I have
recently been using Jojoba oil as a moisturizer - applied to a wet skin
(just one drop) and my skin no longer feels dry and over reactive. I am
preparing to use the Rosacea III ltd system which seems to have had a
great success rate. The bottom line is that the diet has had the
greatest effect on my skin but there is no point in aggravating it
with topical products. I think also that water intake really affects
the skin. I am trying to drink at least ten glasses a day and I am
sure this makes a difference. I would be very careful with exfoliating
products probably the ones that dissolve on the skin are the best
Suz

yes, I was prescribed a cortizone cream for a small
bumpy spot on one cheek and within a few weeks it had
spread to both cheeks and my forehead. I saw an ad in
readers digest for metrogel and a picture of a gal who
looked just like me with the red bumpy face. my derm
said when I showed him the article that my symptoms
looked nothing like the picture. I realized the poor
man was legally blind and left.
--- lasvegas_adventure <canwegoplease2000@...

An alarming numbers of our members who have posted in the

If you must use a physical exfoliater, try to use something that
dissolves as you're applying it. The key is to find something that
feels smooth to your hands even before you apply it and/or nearly
melts as you apply - nothing abrasive.
Some of products I've heard other rosacean use include:
Oatmeal, thickened or diluted with water to your taste, no pun
intended!
Peter Thomas Roth makes a very mild jojoba bead scrub - they melt as
you use it (tho its $$$)
Dermalogica makes a "daily microfoliant" that is just powder that
dissolves as you use it. (I use this about twice a month in the
summer) - there is prob a spa, etc in your city that will give you
free sample. (check the website - dermalogica.com)
The Body Shop use to make a japanese rice scrub that works the same
as the Dermalogica above.
A very mild salicylic acid (1-2%) I think Sage and Paula Begoun -
Cosmeticcop.com sells it. Sal Acid is a liquid exfoliant.
There are a few others out there - tho honestly I haven't seen too
many in the drugstore that I would consider mild.
Hope this helps.

she is using Apple Cider Vinegar with Mother. she has reported her
results each weeks for the
last 2-3 weeks. Here was her first post:
Date: Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:55 am
Subject: new member - my experience with acvwm
I have rosacea, sebderm, and overly oily skin with some acne (yes, I
have it
all!) I have tried most of the topicals that have been discussed here
and on
the rosacea lists. A week ago I bought some Bragg's at my local
health food
store. I started patting some on at night, on my trouble spots
(eyebrows,
temples, and my rosacea "hot spots" which are the areas beneath my
eyes where I
always have welt-like papules). I continued to use a little Nizoral
at night
as
well. Things started looking better almost immediately. I got a
little
overzealous one night and patted the acv all over my face, which
immediately
got
pretty red but was fine by the next morning. Better than fine,
actually. This
stuff seems to be working very nicely for me. I will continue to use
it.
Thanks to the group for all the info. Roni

Dear Denise, and Everyone,
Your statement is so excellently put, that I hesitate, to add my two cents
worth. If only your distilled comment, concerning the "Digest Scrolling
Syndrome", were prominently displayed somewhere for "newbies", so many problems
might be avoided.
Your use of the term, "Holy Grail" is not appropriate, though, unless you
believe it is impossible, that a cure for rosacea will ever be found. It is
indeed possible, that there are different causes for the different symptoms of
rosacea. It is just as possible, that these differing symptoms come from the
same "root cause", given the complexities, of genetic differences,
pharmacological and biological "cascade effects", immune system changes, and
personal habits.
When a cure for rosacea is found, it will no doubt be persecuted, because of all
the lies, deception, and abuse of false cure claims that have preceded it, and
coexist with it. I believe/know, that I have accidentally, (with God's help),
stumbled upon the one and only means of destroying the "root cause" of rosacea.
Given this reality, one does not even have to know the cause of rosacea, to cure
it.
As you no doubt know, Denise, all the most important facts, about this
treatment/cure for rosacea, are at:

K,
if you go to the group site, there is a search engine
for the group messages near the bottom, just
above the MONTHS/Years boxes at this url

Dear Everyone,
I receive the digest version---I don't know how
many others do, but for me the problem is not
receiving the same post in more than one club, is
receiving the same post 5 or ten times, because
each person who comments on it does not bother to
delete the original post, or all but the relevant
parts of the post. With very long posts
especially this is very annoying.
It's also kind of ironic when someone is
complaining about receiving a post too often, and
then reposting the whole original post in their
reply!
If you aren't sure how to delete the original
post, when you hit reply scroll down a bit in the
window that opens and you will see the original
post, select it and hit delete, or select parts
and hit delete.
Thanks,
Denise
By the way, I do enjoy detailed posts about how
various approaches work, and I don't mind the
length if they only appear once! I like it when
someone is sharing information in a way that does
not imply that they feel they have found the one
true holy grail----we don't even all have the
same symptoms, so it's perfectly possible there
is more than one cause going on here, since no
one actually knows what the cause is!

I used Clinique's Exfoliating Scrub for years to keep my skin smooth.
I would be pink afterwards but it quickly faded. Since I was diagnosed
with Rosacea I have stopped using exfoliants on all but rare occasions.
My skin (which is in very good shape aside from the redness) is
starting to feel thick and clogged. If I hadn't had the recent
prolonged flare-up, I'd get out the grains, but now I am afraid it
will hurt.
I realize this is against rosacea-best-practices but ...
... does anyone exfoliate? If so, what do you use? Someone on this
list recommended the Sage Skin Care Try-Me-Packs (they make one
specifically for rosacea) but it includes scrubbing grains, and it
made me curious.
(FYI, I read every single message as far back as November 2002, but
couldn't find a way to search the database by keyword.)

Hi, Charles,
What was the systemic approach that you used? Could you share the complete list
of products and what you've done to cure your rosacea?
For example, probiotics is a relatively new word. It refers to introducing
"friendly bacteria" into our gut. As strange as it sounds, people used to eat
more dirt, (containing these bacteria), from home grown food dug from the
garden, (and from other sources not present today), and there is reason to
believe that the symbiotic relationship we have with these bacteria does do us a
lot of good. That's why yogurt and accidophilus, (sp?), are recommended. Of
course, that does not mean that "probiotic products" are effectively giving us
the right "friendly bacteria", but they may be better than eating dirt from our
backyard, or maybe not....
My personal opinion, is that there is a type of fungus that causes rosacea. It
is extremely "stealthy", (i.e. hard to detect), and slow growing, and temporary
"rosacea remissions" may occur, because our immune system is sporadic in its
ability to fight off this fungus.
I believe that I accidently discovered the one medication that is effective in
completely killing this fungus, rather than just temporarily slowing it down.
All of the most important facts about this most effective treatment/cure for
rosacea, are at:

I tried the face doctor soap and It made my face worse. I really do not have
the p&p's so maybe if one has those it might do some good but i did not care
for it at all.

It really does sound like you had some kind of allergy attack, but
only a doctor could make that determination. On the other hand,
rosacea symptoms can be excerbated in a short period of time, much
like reaching a 'critical mass' or saturation point, resulting in
what seems like an overnight problem, I experienced this myself.
Only looking back, ever so slightly, the problems had been creeping
up on me.
I tried the "metros' for about 2 months, only to experience worse
symptoms than before. (Yes, Galderma has the largest product market
share for rosacea treatment, on the trad med front-that includes
cleansers and moisturizers.) The antibiotics were not a option as I
don't believe in taking them unless its life threatening. Give Zia
Cleansing gel a try, most rosaceans seem to tolerate it fairly well.
Many of us (at least on this board) keep our symptoms under control
ONLY with the diet and supplements. It only makes sense to work
from the inside out. Just about anything you put on you skin will
be irritating when your skin is in an inflamed state. So first
thing is to get your skin to calm down, find out where your triggers
are. Ususally, topical products will not "fix" the problem because
its not a topical problem.
Once you get up to speed on diet/nutrition, you'll soon realize that
much of what you've been eating has not been contributing to your
improving health (including the health of your skin).

I had rosacea. Some rosacea is only a symptom of imbalance. In 1995
a friend suggested a systemic approach to relief from rosacea. We did
not know that it would eliminate the symptoms. Your doctor treats the
symptoms. A systemic approach treats the body's organs to renewal.
The intestinal walls are cleansed. The colon is cleansed. A fresh
supply of probiotics is added. Enzymes help with better digestion. In
short, toxins can not build up in these organs and come to the
surface of your body (your face) screaming for help on the behalf of
the sytems. If there is a hint of sensitivity on my nose, I add
probiotics immediately and the symptom fades before it forms into
anything. My body is sending me an email asking for help. Pay
attention it says. Balance is needed for we Rosacea sufferers. We may
need balance in general and our body in its generosity is telling us
that! Contact me if you wish. Charles

This is interesting. I was recently diagnosed with low iron. It was
low, but still in the normal range. My doctor put me on iron
supplements (for 3 months). I go back next month for a recheck of my
iron. But, I have found that I feel a lot better since taking the
iron supplements. I'm not so tired. The iron supplements haven't hurt
or improved my rosacea in any way.

In a message dated 03/10/2003 12:35:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
skwpt@... writes:
<< Maybe it really *is* what I'm eating, but why on earth would
I have such a violent reaction to it now? And so suddenly. Any ideas?
Could this be an allergy of some kind? Any new products or foods since your
skin changed so radically??

Hi everyone,
I'm new and am anxious to benefit from all your experience. So here's
a little bit about me:
I was diagnosed with rosacea about five years ago and have been living
with it quite comfortably. I'm guessing I have a moderate case: tiny
visible blood vessels on cheeks and chin (and one or two around my
nostrils) and only flushing with alcohol or exercise, and the flushing
would calm within an hour or so of stopping the activity. I have never
had acne; in fact, I have always had porcelain skin.
In the last month, however, things have changed so radically I can
hardly believe I am living in the same skin. For no apparent
reason--that is, no excessive exposure to sun or wind, no changes to
skin or hair care products, no major changes in my diet--my face has
become chronically hot, slightly swollen, painful, raw feeling, and
prickly (like I want to dig into it with my fingernails). My eyes
always feel watery, itchy, and tired. I have flushing in new places
(bridge of my nose, between my eyebrows, ear lobes, along my jaw
line). And I have no idea why. Even my upper lip burns.
I went online to initially research gentler skin care products, and a
Google seach brought me to the Rosacea Diet, which I shall start
tomorrow.
Presently, I have two questions:
1. Has anyone using the metrogel/cream/lotion products experiened
reverse tolerance? At www.metrogel.com home page, there is a
disclaimer that says, "In clinical trials, patients experienced the
following side effects in order of frequency: skin discomfort (burning
and stinging), redness, skin irritation, itching, or worsening of
rosacea. Individual events occurred in 10 percent of patients or
fewer." (Also, doesn't Galderma, the metrogel people, make Cetaphil? I
cannot use the facial cleansers, which I find extremely curious, but I
have been using the cleansing bar and moisturing lotion on my body for
over a year and have skin as soft as a baby's butt!) And before last
year I used Clinique products for oily skin and never had a problem.
2. Has anyone who has been following the Rosacea Diet (or something
similar like Protein Power, OA, Atkins) been able to stop using
medication and control his or her rosacea with just diet?
As I sit here at my computer, it has been over 4 hours since I washed
my face, and it is still burning and puffy. My eyes are watery, hot,
and dry. Maybe it really *is* what I'm eating, but why on earth would
I have such a violent reaction to it now? And so suddenly. Any ideas?
Thanks very much,
K

Jacy,
I don't know about everyone else - but I'm definitely tired of
hearing it.
Mora

I have received this same E-mail from three different people. Is it really
necessary to send the same message three times? :)
Adam

mine is very low

pamdan50,
The group is here but very quiet.
Eventually the noise from the
group will be heard again. How
is your rosacea?

Chinese Medicine and Rosacea
The secret to understanding rosacea is in knowing the relationship
between internal organs and what are called meridians in Chinese
medicine. Meridians are energy pathways in the body somewhat similar to
veins in western medicine. Currently, western medicine has yet to
recognize meridians.
Associated with each internal organ is a meridian network that runs
inside the body. You can see these meridians illustrated in any Chinese
medical text. The entire premise of acupuncture is based on this
relationship and how to alter the flow of energy with acupuncture to
restore the balance of energy.
Chinese medicine would associate rosacea as being a internal heat
imbalance. They say heat rises in a upward direction. When heat congests
a organ like the liver, the excess heat rises following its associated
meridian. In the case of the liver, the liver meridian runs directly up
to the face. Other organ meridians that run up to the face are the
gallbladder, small intestine, and large intestine.
In addition to rosacea being a internal heat imbalance, there are four
other factors in Chinese medicine relating to imbalance which would
determine exactly how ones rosacea symptoms manifest. These internal
factors named after qualities in nature are known as Damp, Dry, Wind,
and Cold with two primary factors being Yin and Yang.
For an excellent explanation of these factors, see the book "Live In The
Balance" by Linda Prout. Precise detection of these factors which bring
imbalance are traditionally determined by physical observation,
questions, pulse, and tongue analysis by a practitioner of Chinese
medicine.
The above information explains why rosacea is rarely found outside of
the face. This also explains why particular heating foods, congesting
foods, and lifestyle imbalances trigger an increase in rosacea symptoms.
Avoiding certain foods may have some effect in controlling rosacea,
however the underlying cause is not being addressed which is a congested
digestive system, primarily the liver, gallbladder, and intestines.
Also, attempting to address rosacea externally is to completely miss the
mark.
The treatment of rosacea by Chinese medicine would employ herbs to
reduce heat, acupuncture to reduce heat, and cupping to remove toxic
heat from the blood. However, a more powerful and thorough way to remove
toxic heat is by specific internal cleansing of the liver, gallbladder,
and intestines. This causes rosacea symptoms to completely disappear.
There are some in western medicine who claim there is no evidence for a
link between rosacea and the liver, however this claim is incomplete.
The model of analysis regarding internal organs and meridians in Chinese
medicine is one of the most sophisticated and time tested in the world.
Since western medicine does not employ this model of analysis or remove
toxic heat, from their perspective, rosacea remains a mystery as to its
cause and cure.
References
Live In the Balance - Linda Prout
Foundations of Chinese Medicine - Giovanni Maciocia
Internal Healers http://www.internalhealers.com/tcm/theory
Between Heaven and Earth: A Guide to Chinese Medicine - Harriet Beinfield
Liver Gallbladder
http://www.internalhealers.com/tcm/practice/patterns_liv_gb.asp
The Rosacea Cure: A Natural Approach

http://www.stevia.net/
http://www.holisticmed.com/sweet/
http://www.healthfree.com/Stevia.htm
the above site claims:
"There have not been any reports of toxicity with stevia, which is consumed by
millions
of people daily."

the main thing about Stevia is less is more.
there is a report I read that Stevia is supposed to
be healthy for you since it is a leaf plant. I will
try to find the report. however, I have an issue with
any plant that turns into a white powder, but I have
eaten products with Stevia in it and not had a break out.
but I only eat small amounts. never tested it
big time. moderation is the key with Stevia.
if you add more Stevia is tastes terrible.
Brady

I have gotten to the point where I don't wear make-up at all.
My skin looks and feels better without all the stuff on it.
And it doesn't burn anywhere near as much as it did when I had make-up on and
flushed.
Hugs,
Jacy

I'm around, but nothing to contribute and lots of work to do! (grin)
Cheeks were slightly pink today so I felt good enough to go with
minaml makeup. Here's hoping it lasts the day!
I'm getting my house ready for an open house this weekend, so won't be
on the list for a bit--lots to clean and toss to get it all ready! My
face will love having 4 days with no makeup, just a bit of moisturizer
and sunblock.
Pam in D.C.

Haven't posted for a long time; went through 30 days of the diet last summer
and my skin improved. I fell off the diet when I returned to teaching and am
now back to working on eliminating things from my diet. I'm trying to find
out
how to use powdered stevia. Anyone know how to find stevia recipes? How
much powdered stevia equals the liquid? I've searched online without much
success. Thanks Brady for the e-mails you send with all the posts, they help
keep me focused.

Bart,
how's the diet going. Where are the photos you spoke about?
the instructions are found at this url to upload

its good to know if your dr is behind times,,,i dont want to cause a
worse problem..any other recommendations are greatly
appreciated.thanks again

im new and my dr just prescribed metrocream and hydrocortisone any
info on this would be greatly appreciated thanks

i have to say that your doctor is a little behind the times. hydrocortisone may
help at first but definitely makes things worse in the long run by thinning the
epidermis. also metrocream is a good start but you should try noritate instead.
it's the same active ingredient in a less irritating base

Elisa,
Ok. thanks for clearing this up.
Possibly your public computer
added the attachment? Hopefully
you can send email to the group

Dairy Products and Rosacea
A hot topic in the field of health are dairy products, particularly with
the onslaught of milk advertising. Hopefully, this brief analysis
through the lens of eastern medicine will clarify this controversial
issue. For many people, the consumption of dairy products is very
problematic. They find that they are difficult to digest and cause
congestion which over time can lead to a whole range of health problems
including rosacea. Add to the fact that synthetic antibiotics and
hormones are added to milk and the problem is compounded.
From the viewpoint of Ayurvedic medicine, lactose intolerance is not the
primary issue, the problem is due to the way milk is manufactured and
consumed in modern culture. Milk that has been homogenized and
pasteurized is considered essentially indigestible and results in
undigested milk accumulating in the body. Milk that is consumed cold and
with a meal also puts a severe strain on the digestive system. Those who
can digest milk this way usually have an exceptionally strong digestion,
but are still at risk for health issues over time.
Ayurveda recommends raw organic milk placed in a saucepan, brought to a
boil, cooled, and then adding half a teaspoon of a digestion
strengthening spice like cinnamon or cardamom powder. The milk is then
drunk by itself outside of a meal. Boiling the milk is also considered
to make it lighter rendering it easier to digest.
Also, of the three body types in Ayurveda which are Vata (Air), Pitta
(Fire), Kapha (Water), Ayurveda recommends little or no dairy products
for the Kapha body type. Ayurveda classifies milk as sweet, cooling,
strengthening, and building to the body when properly consumed. Out of
all the dairy products, Ayurveda considers hard cheese to be very
congesting and heating.
In Chinese medicine, milk is considered a damp forming food and a yin
tonic food. There are five fundamental internal disease factors or
principles in Chinese medicine. They are Heat, Cold, Damp, Dry, and Wind
plus the two primary principles Yin and Yang. For a explanation of these
principles and how they relate to food and disease, see the book "Live
in The Balance" by Linda Prout.
If someone has a health imbalance relating to damp, consuming a damp
forming food such as milk will only aggravate the condition. If someone
has a dry imbalance also known as yin deficiency, then milk a yin
building food would be considered beneficial. Those who choose a vegan
diet need to pay very close attention to the principle of yin, since
they are most prone to yin deficiency over time unless they eat yin
tonic foods and herbs. Additionaly they need warming spices and energy
herbs like Siberian ginseng or ashwaghanda. The use of clarified butter
in Ayurveda would be considered an excellent yin tonic food.
If after applying the above guidelines, you still have difficulty with
dairy products, consider the dairy alternatives such as soy milk, rice
milk, and almond milk. There are a number of varieties available at the
health food store. The vanilla soy milk silk by whitwave.com and vanilla
rice milk by lundberg.com are nearly identical to the taste and texture
of dairy milk.
It is interestin